Brûk foar in flugge reaksje myn oerlisside op Wikipedia: w:fy:Meidogger Oerlis:Aliter.

Project namespaceBewurkje

This probably ought to be on the main Discussion page, but I had to write it here as the project namespace is the problem at hand:
This Wiktionary uses WikiWurdboek as the project name, since "wiktionary" doesn't mean anything in Frisian. However, the project namespace really is Wiktionary. Assistence in solving this is appreciated. (There are more problems, caused by the change to lowercast, but solving this first avoids re-re-renaming pages.) Aliter 23.47, mai 18, 2006 (UTC) Aliter 17.55, mai 22, 2006 (UTC)
I guess some other namespaces may need adapting as well. Aliter 23.32, mai 26, 2006 (UTC)

Also, like on fy.wikipedia, the date order is wrong here. Both should have day month year. Aliter 23.51, mai 18, 2006 (UTC)

Temporary adminshipBewurkje

Your temporary adminship on this wiki has expired, and accordingly your administrator permissions have been removed. Best of luck with the project — Dan | talk 22.06, 8 sep 2006 (UTC)

Notice: Your sysop rights on this wiki are removed because your temporary granted status is now expired. Greetings, Walter 13.42, 15 nov 2006 (UTC)

Berjocht / Noeditsection?Bewurkje

Hi, Aliter,

I see you write English. A welcome development. You haven't been very active for a while, but I still wanted to let you know that I was experimenting with a couple changes to your (really great!) templates. Some, like this one Berjocht:-en- include the "no edit section" tag in their code. But in a long entry, like this one, it's convenient to click "bywurkje seksje" and limit the what's on the screen to edit the English portion. Plus I make fewer mistakes that way. Now that the entries are getting longer and more complicated (a very good thing! yes?), I thought the change was useful. Let me know if you have any objections.

Also, I seem to remember reading that there used to be some sort of bug that took some users to the edit screen for the template when they meant to edit the article where the template was included? Maybe that's why the tag is there. Anyway if so, whatever it was did finally get fixed.

Thanks! Winter (Snakesteuben 19 apr 2008, 06.25 (UTC))

Winter lit witte dat hy leaver it seksje bewurkjen oanstean lit yn ús berjochten. Dat kin ik my goed yntinke. Ik hie it útstean litten om't it de opmaak nei de Barrebiesjes holp. Aliter 9 mai 2008, 16.12 (UTC)

Admins, templates, and plants and animalsBewurkje

Hi, Aliter, thanks so very much for your help on all fronts. And I love your bilingual answers. Great way to help me learn. :-)

1. Please take a look at what I wrote to you and Sonne on the plants and animals question here.

2. As you no doubt saw, I jumped the gun and started the war on noeditsection already. :-)

(The alert on your wikipedia account is just a dup of this one, since that's your usual home.)

Winter 10 mai 2008, 04.29 (UTC)

Re: usernameBewurkje

Hi, Aliter,

Ja, ik wit dat in rjochtenútfurder (of commons (?) rjochtenbehearder hjir, dêr't gjin 'furder is) meidoggernammen wizigje kin. Mar dêr ik haw fiifentweintich fan, allegear itselde, en ik brûk net altyd ien fan myn echte nammen -- allinnich hjir en by trije oare projekten. Mei it kreëarjen fan ynterwikiynstruminten (en troch eksterne programma's) binne ferskillende brûkernammen net sa praktysk.

Mar ik woe/wol net lestich wêze, dat ik feroarje de foarkarynstelling wer.

Op fersyk oanpast troch Aliter.


Yes, I know bureaucrats (or commons stewards where sites have no 'crat) can change usernames. But I have 25 ids like this one. And I disclose/use a "real life" name on only four wiki projects. And since I use global watchlists, linked accounts, external tools etc., separately named ids on different sites would be a bit of a hassle.

But in case you're suggesting that my signature override might be annoying, I've changed it back.


If you feel like it, and if it's not too difficult/painful (big if!), please edit the above text, so I can compare your changes and get depressed learn. :-) Obviously, here, there's no need to use redline or strikeout or anything. The wiki software is kewl that way. Winter (Userpage:Snakesteuben 14 mai 2008, 08.43 (UTC))

A somewhat edited version.
No, this wasn't about the sig being irritating; in that case the opening would have been to ask you the reason for it.
In wat oanpaste ferzje.
Nee, it wie net dat jo ûndertekening ergerlik wie; yn dat gefal hie de iepening west dat ik jo de reden frege hie. Aliter 14 mai 2008, 18.36 (UTC)

Jo hawwe gelyk. It moat mar feroare wurde. Groet Sonne 14 mai 2008, 20.07 (UTC)

Re: SealterskBewurkje

> some other wiktionaries have a separate block for a smaller group of languages as well

Indeed. I was convinced about that a while back, yet I think the current scheme is bloody confusing. I started a full-blown table with columns for Sealtersk and Noardfrysk, but soon abandoned it. It was clearly overkill, and in the many cases when we have only one of the two entries, that gives the missing info too much glare.

Yet I still think we need to set it off a bit. How about if our template does something extremely simple like this? (Compare original entry here.) The standard place for the entry would be right above the translations section--where most of the entries already have it. The info is the same, but now it's obvious the related languages section isn't a further description of the main word.

Snakesteuben 14 mai 2008, 23.33 (UTC)

P.S. I very much appreciate the corrections. And I wasn't here before, so I can't really welcome you back. So I'll say I'm glad you're braving the merry-go-round for a bit; I can't tell you how nice it is to have somebody here who knows what's going on.

Snakesteuben 14 mai 2008, 23.44 (UTC)

Sure, putting them at the top of the translations section is feasible.

To avoid the extra header level, we could just as easily do something like this. I just edited the old, simpler, example to illustrate. The original is preserved on the talk page.

Well, Since I'm apparently no longer the only one around here with misgivings about the extra sections, maybe we should put a short summary of this discussion on the Buorren, and continue it there? If you think that's a good idea, I'll leave that to you and your command of the language, if you don't mind. :-)

Snakesteuben 16 mai 2008, 23.11 (UTC)

Betsjuttingen Thanks! + grammar questionBewurkje

Re: "in toan in heale toan leger as in b."

D'oh! That seems so obvious now.
Ljocht! Wêrom haw ik dat net dwaan kinnen?

Re: "miepen"


And a quick grammar question on regular inflected adjectives if that's OK. T(rue) or F(alse) between the little quotes if you'd be so kind? For now, I guess let's just deal with nominative (??) case. I can try to figure out the n's before I come back. That's probably a bit much to ask you to explain before I try to figure it out.

  • Common nouns and plurals always add the e to an adjective that precedes the noun: de giele huzen '+(-)'
  • Predicate adjectives are not inflected and take the base form: it hûs is giel; de huzen binne giel '+'
  • Adjectives preceding neuter nouns using an indefinite article take no e: in giel hûs ? '+'
  • Adjectives preceding neuter nouns with a definite article always take an e: it giele hûs ? '+'

I think maybe I've been getting those last two backwards most of the time. I keep seeing it the other way around online. If so, it's counter-intuitive... You'd think the adjective would be used to flag the gender when the article doesn't, as some other languages do. But I'm basically all balled up on it. Thanks again!

Winter (Username:Snakesteuben 18 mai 2008, 12.49 (UTC))

Basically, the e, or rather the lack of it, does indeed show the gender: when there's no "it", neuter doesn't get an e, so you can still hear it's neuter.
However, in strong relations there needn't be an e, even for common nouns. The standard example is "de âld man", which doesn't just tell you his gender and age, but also, his importance to the story or to the speaker. Aliter 18 mai 2008, 18.45 (UTC)
Ah, OK. I figured it was probably more complicated than I thought. But that's not too terribly bad. Thanks much! Winter (Username:Snakesteuben 19 mai 2008, 11.15 (UTC))

Code editor?Bewurkje

You're probably way ahead of me on this, too. But I just discovered a useful editor. If you paste the code of a template in it, then you can move your cursor before any brace, bracket or parenthesis, and it will highlight that one in red, as well as its corresponding open or closing partner! I can't tell you how much time I've spent trying to count braces. Of course, I'm a bit of a ditz, so that might not be a problem for most. Anyway, the one I found is Notepad++. I understand there are better ones--and even some editors especially designed for wiki markup--but just this was a big help to me. (Maybe I can fix that darn Swedish template before you get to it now. Gheheh. Even if nobody wants that it'll be a good exercise.)

Winter (Username:Snakesteuben 18 mai 2008, 14.46 (UTC))

Thanks, but yes, I already use editors with extra capabilities. Aliter 18 mai 2008, 18.45 (UTC)


Aliter, I'm virtually certain that I've forced you to spend far more time babysitting on this merry-go-round than you would like. I'm also virtually certain you'd be too polite to say so. And I'm both pushy and not very clueful at reading hints. So I'll ask you right out, if you find me more of a pain in the neck than an asset, please tell me so, and I'll back off a bit. Winter (Username:Snakesteuben 19 mai 2008, 11.11 (UTC))

Sonne weighed in, so I've answered this on my page. BTW, about this Winter character, "he's" (very much) a "she." But you might have figured that out since that post on the Buorren. Winter (User:Snakesteuben 20 mai 2008, 15.05 (UTC))

A quick head's upBewurkje

I'll answer later. For now, a quick heads up. If you see any goofiness, it might be this person reincarnating under a new name/IP. I just got to ban my first user! Impersonating the founder of wikipedia (purported to ban me indefinitely, gheheh) and vandalised my page. I guess we're on the RADAR screen for some of the nuts now. Ah well, I'm now starting to see the virtues of the anonymity some of us are trying so hard to shed. ;-) Winter (Username:Snakesteuben 20 mai 2008, 10.03 (UTC))

Eigenskipswurd mei haadletterBewurkje

Nee, sûnder haadletter is korrekt. Winter (Username:Snakesteuben 23 mai 2008, 11.48 (UTC)) Adding: I admit, I assumed it was the other way around at first, too. That's why the job file was wrong. Somewhat counterintuitive, but I finally had the good sense to consult credible references and fix it. Winter (Username:Snakesteuben 23 mai 2008, 12.00 (UTC))

My paper dictionaries. Yeah, particularly in a language that capitalises nouns, wouldn't you think, maybe? But no, to be unitary it has to be hyphenated. Which many, but not all, such German words are. In fact, from the list Í've been compiling, it seems hyphenated names are more frequent, perhaps the norm for things that aren't common as dirt.

Speaking of references, on that other thing on the Buorren, I just noticed: "Understand that though this is how the Frisian Wikipedia tends to do it, there's no Frisian rule saying it must be so." Oeps! I had missed that, and it seems I just asked you to do the impossible! Never mind. :-) Winter (Username:Snakesteuben 23 mai 2008, 17.36 (UTC))

Hi, Aliter.

Re: doglet

It doesn't matter to me in the least, but just FYI, you need to put "doglet" in quotes to keep google from matching the word dog, too. I'll put it back. Catlet too. Feel free to "'let" any other animal you like, as well. They all work. It's quite arbitrary isn't it? Perhaps English should be more like Frysk and German, and let people coin things freely wherever they're useful, and treat them as accepted. But we certainly don't have to be so staid with our dictionary! Then again, if such things were so freely permitted, I suppose the humour inherent in coining such neologisms would be lost... I dunno. *shrug* Enough rambling for now. :-)

Re: the other thing

When I rename them, do you want redirects or not?

(quick edit addition: Oh, catlet must have been a figment of my imagination, I don't see a deleted version after all.)

Winter (Username:Snakesteuben 24 mai 2008, 21.59 (UTC))

Indulging in a little google fun: So far, my favourite is mooselet for baby moose. :-D Ah well, back to more productive work. :-( Winter (Username:Snakesteuben 24 mai 2008, 22.08 (UTC))

Inderdaad, ja, dat is "it oare ding"! OK, Boss, ik wiskje allegearre, efter wy hawwe 10.000 wurden ... er ... ik bedoel ... efter ik de "wat is hjirmei keppele" finen. Yeah, that's it! ;-) ("redirectlet" gheheh! I have to remember to look at the descriptions for your messages every time. You have the kewlest subtle sense of humour.) Winter (Username:Snakesteuben 24 mai 2008, 23.30 (UTC))

Oh, one more thing, so you didn't match "dog, let," huh? I'll have to hunt through the settings, the computer I'm on now is all in German, including the logged in google account, so it's not the English-dumb-down problem. Then again, maybe it's because there's a logged in account. Do you use one? I am so sick and tired of google not respecting all my diacriticals in quoted searches that I generally use yahoo--but that gives me annoying flags of "dangerous site, proceed at your own risk"--for places like Rutgers university! Feh. Thanks again, Winter (Username:Snakesteuben 24 mai 2008, 23.36 (UTC))


Goed jo hjir wer te sjen. :-) En tankewol. De berjocht liket my foooollllle better ta. Moai!

Snakesteuben 18 aug 2008, 18.09 (UTC)


Hello. I see you've made a comment on my bot's talk page. I'm controlling that account so, you should talk to me. :) Unfortunately, I don't know Frisian, so I don't understand what you've written there. If you know English (and, thus, understand this), do you mind translating that to English, so that I can understand. Thanks --Dungodung 2 sep 2008, 11.46 (UTC)

You're welcome. I'm glad it helps :) --Dungodung 2 sep 2008, 17.47 (UTC)


As an Administrator, you are allowed into #wikimedia-admin, the cross-wiki coordination channel for Wikimedia administrators. Any member of the channel can invite you in temporarily, but you need an invite exemption from a channel operator to get in whenever you want. Please come to #wikimedia and ask for an invite.

Any admin from any project is welcome and it is a good place for cross-wiki coordination of vandal and spam fighting. It is also useful for new admins to contact more experienced admins in real-time to get help with the more complicated admin tasks such as history merges/splits and importing via Special:Import.

Please remember to translate the interface at betawiki: only and to upload images preferably at commons:

Thank you

Best regards, --fûgel (:> )=| 2 sep 2008, 20.02 (UTC)

(Fûgel giet der fan út dat ik al wit dat ik behearder bin, wat net sa wie, en noeget my út foar #wikimedia-admin, om't hja dêr wer de ien of oare komplekse prosedure foar betocht hawwe. It kanaal soe helpe by it befjochtsjen fan fandalisme, dêr't wy hoe ek neat oer te sizzen hawwe om't de goeddoggers dat sûnder ús útfiere. It soe ek ehlpe by dingen dy't gewoan in de dokumentaasje stean moatte soenen. Dan hat er fierder noch reklame foar betawiki en commons, as wie dat de komplete wierheid. Hy ûnderskriuwt mei in keppeling nei in oerlis-side dêr't er net fan wol dat minsken dêr skriuwe.)
Grif ek wer goed bedoeld allegear. Aliter 2 sep 2008, 20.35 (UTC)

Bûgings fan tiidwurdenBewurkje

Goeie, Aliter. Wow. Ik sjoch Jo hawwe it wakker drok hân. In freondinne en ik ek. Wy besykje de 350.000-yngong wurdlist fan de Frysk Akademy leksikologysk te analysearre. No hawwe wy de bûgings fan 4.000 klasse-II tiidwurden. (Oerbliuwend, likernôch 6.000-8.000? klasse-I en II.) Wy wolle graach Jo helpen mei it kontrolearjen. Ien fan elk generaal skema, bygelyks, der binne 1.500, mear of minder, mei de útgong "earje" allinnich! En dan ... natuerlik, der binne gjin siden foar in protte dêrfan. Wolle jo in kategoryskema of in oare goed plak meitsjen, as Jo it graach hawwe, wêr't wy dizze siden setten kinne?

Tank! Snakesteuben 10 okt 2008, 11.36 (UTC)

A tidy favour to ask.Bewurkje

Hi, Aliter. I'm pretty clearly never going to finish what I started here. Would You be so kind as to wipe the link to the draft? (Meaning the little 'n' on the right-hand side.) The link goes to the same page's talk page, which can then also be deleted along with its various draft preload templates.)

Sorry 'bout the mess. ;-)

Thanks much, Snakesteuben 17 nov 2008, 06.44 (UTC)



Sorry dat ik je niet in het Fries kan aanspreken. Ik woon in het verre Vlaanderen. Wat die duplicatie van informatie betreft, moet ik toegeven dat ik daar normaal gezien ook niet voor ben. Die tabel wordt echter ingelezen door een bot. Hij zal spoedig worden vergezeld door een tabel waarin beschreven staat hoe jullie je woordenboekpagina's opmaken. Het is handiger als het allemaal bij elkaar staat dan dat ik steeds weer moet bijeensprokkelen. De bedoeling van de bot die geen bot is, is om iets te maken waardoor alle Wiktionary's toegankelijk worden in het zelfde formaat. Een omzettingsbot dus, ofte een API die een abstractie maakt van hoe elk Wiktionaryproject de zaken aanpakt. Ik zie dat jullie overwegend iso3 taalcodes gebruiken. Dat zal die API intern ook gaan doen, toch merkte ik hier en daar een naam voor een taal in het Fries op. Om die te kunnen omzetten is die tabel dus vereist. Ik hoop dat het daarmee wat duidelijker wordt.

Vriendelijke groeten --Polyglot 27 nov 2008, 00.30 (UTC)


Ik heb antwoord gegeven op mijn gebruikerspagina --Polyglot 28 des 2008, 00.29 (UTC)

Temporary access expiredBewurkje

Hello Aliter. The temporary access you requested on this wiki has expired (see archived request). Thanks. Mike.lifeguard | @meta 10 jan 2010, 22.18 (UTC)

Kategory:Meidogger/Taal enBewurkje

Hi, Aliter.

I was looking at Kategory:Meidogger/Taal en and wondered if it makes sense that this category is included in itself, I mean, it is a member of itself. This is reproduced in all other (at least, in all I have checked). Is this correct? Cheers, Malafaya 13 apr 2010, 13.31 (UTC)

Same for Kategory:Meidogger/Taal pt-0. Malafaya 13 apr 2010, 13.36 (UTC)
Hi, Aliter. I think you misunderstood. I was not talking about the templates but the categories. The categories are included in themselves which doesn't make much sense (same as Category:English being included in Category:English...) Malafaya 29 apr 2010, 16.38 (UTC)